Intersectionality of Creativity & Culture with Joe Ambrocio Carolino Jr.
We’re back with another creative community interview. Our Copywriter, Olyvia, also returns with an exclusive interview with visionary Chief Creative Officer, Joe Ambrocio Carolino Jr. The duo dive deep into Joe’s unique upbringing in a Vietnamese/Filipino American home, his search for acceptance and belonging in a Mexican gang at 9 years old, his unparalleled insights on the industry, and his tips on retaining your creative energy.
Introductions & Joe’s Upbringing
Olyvia Chac: Let’s dive into the questions! Who are you? How did you grow up?
Joe Carolino: Absolutely, thank you for having me. My name is Joe or José Ambrocio Carolino Jr. I’m the Chief Creative Officer at Thesis in Portland, Oregon. Proud first-generation Asian American, specifically Vietnamese/Filipino American. I’m the oldest of 4 siblings (that I grew up with, I have many half siblings) and we grew up super poor, like we lived in Section 8 housing, welfare, wic vouchers, all of that. I was the oldest in my household and my Ba used to always say “You are the head of the snake so you have to lead”, so I was in charge of my siblings, household chores, translating and doing paperwork for my parents, going to the grocery store, typical eldest first-gen duties. And yeah, excited to be here.
OC: Oh, there’s four of you? I totally missed that! For those of you who are reading this right now, Joe and I worked together at Thesis a few years back, he actually was my mentor when he was a Creative Director.
JC: Wow, it’s been that long huh?
OC: I know! Now you’re Joe, the CCO! And because we’ve known each other, I want to pivot more into that one thing you joined when you were 8 or 9 years old.
JC: So, because I didn’t really fit in as a mixed kid, I wasn’t Asian or American enough, I didn’t fit in at school. So I stayed hanging out with kids outside right, remember section 8 which had a blend of some Asian but mostly a Black and Mexican culture community was people I kicked it with. With that I kind of just fell into a Mexican gang. I was a product of my environment so yeah. I loved the community I grew up in very deeply and wouldn’t change it for the world.
OC: Yeah I think you’ve mentioned this before, despite what we think about when we hear “gang,” it was much more than what meets the eye. It provided that community, that space for you.
JC: Oh 100%, I belonged to something, outside of my home, because I couldn’t find that love, connection, from inside my home. And not even being Mexican didn’t affect how I ran with the homies; if anything it made my bond stronger. They loved, supported and took care of me in ways that I felt I needed at that time of my life. I won’t delve too much further into it, but my time as a part of the community, at that young of an age, really did provide that comfort and sense of identity for me. It made me feel less lost.
OC: That is such a unique upbringing and just environment at such a young age. Thank you for sharing with us. Ah yes, speaking of identity, let’s talk about that and how you grew up in a multicultural household.
JC: Yeah for sure. Okay so this is wild, as you know, but for everyone else. So my dad who raised me, I believed was my birth dad, is Vietnamese, like 100% from the motherland. He’s from Nha Trang and I thought me and my siblings were literally Cuong’s kids but it wasn’t until I was about 19 or 20 years old, as an adult, did I learn that my birth father is actually Filipino.
And it was like I had another identity crisis. I was upset at my mom for not telling me, my whole entire family – it was like another shock to further deepen that identity crisis I was already working through.
OC: My god, so it was like one of those family secrets type of things.
JC: And yeah, despite my dad knowing I wasn’t his flesh and blood, he still adopted me and raised me as one of his own and it's been a while since this thing broke so I’ve had time to process and also felt like what I went through as a kid, just kind of felt grateful, you know?
OC: Definitely. It’s like, “wow another human being who wasn’t related to me, took me in as their own and still tried to provide and love me.”
JC: Yes, exactly. I’ve grown to be very open about my story but also how much my dad and I have worked through our stuff. And how that helped me through my creative journey.
Road to Advertising & The Leap to Creative Belonging
OC: We know you’re currently a CCO, but can you run it back and share how you got into creativity or advertising?
JC: My first really core moment of being creative was when I was 8 years old and as the oldest kid, I was responsible for going to the grocery store and paying with food stamps. My mom gave me a list of stuff we needed plus some more open items like “stuff for dinner”, and then, with the leftover money, I started to think of ways to use the rest of the stamps. It’s like a brief, right? You go through and see how you can finish it.
And I used up the stamps to buy the stuff we needed like bread, Cheerios, that government cheese, and then the rest, would be like problem-solving – a brief.
OC: This is a really good parallel/metaphor/analogy. What else?
JC: If I think back to how I grew up as well, I’ve had a lack of affirmation since I was young so I turned that into fuel. Because of that lack, I saw it as having the mentality of “well, if I can't get affirmation or lacking something, I’m just gonna go out there and build shit myself.” That lack there of led me to really build something for myself as well.
OC: And you were a pre-med or pre-healthcare major turned creative like me too right?
JC: Haha yes, I was pre-pharmacy actually. All my cousins were and that really was what kept me from going straight into art school and graphic design. I actually quit my sophomore year of college to pursue a career in design for three years before I went back to college.
OC: You quit?!
JC: Yes, I did. And it was also an internal commitment to myself to prove my dad wrong, and that I could actually have a successful creative career. You know how Asian dads and parents are.
OC: Okay, absolutely! I’m still trying to prove that to my dad as we speak. And what else brought you to the industry? Why take on the role of Chief Creative Officer/CCO?
JC: It is a beautiful space. I think it's an amazing spot to be in. It's one of the coolest roles out there where you get to be hands-on with the work that you're involved in. You get to create. You get to involve people. You get to work with people. But the shift from there was me digging deeper into my why and exercising my why.
And to go deeper into your questions, growing up, the “model minority myth” scared the shit out of me because, when I was searching for my why, I didn’t want to fall into that category. So, that next step of Chief Creative Officer from Creative Director, just defaulting to that wasn’t enough for me. This is a big jump and I wanted to check myself and go through an exercise to discover my why and why it made sense for me to move to that next level of CCO.
I started to discover my why, which is a great driver for me now. I want to create space in places for underprivileged communities, people who look like me and the homies. That's really my why at the end of the day. And, when you start to go down a path of power or influence, a lot of your decisions can impact those communities in positive and negative ways. And I wanted to have a seat at the table to create those spaces.
OC: You wanted to be, this is for big words, the catalyst for change. And also bring authenticity to it and where it matters. Like you’re gonna walk on the street and no one really would care or know you’re a CCO or CD whatever.
JC: Oh yeah, I'm not trying to fake the funk ever. I'll never fake it. Like, that's the thing. You get what you get. What you see is what you get with me. You know, the world sees value in that and certain people, but there are some people that will believe in you and some people that won't. And I'm lucky enough to have people around me that believe in me. I have a lot of gratitude for these people and communities that believe.
From Swoosh to Couture & The In-Betweens
OC: Let’s dig into the work! I know you came from Nike and other local agencies like Instrument. What were some of your favorite brands you’ve worked on? Hermès? Ralph Lauren?
JC: I was a former designer at Nike, Swoosh and did some amazing work that I’ll glaze over quickly, like the Nike digital design system. It was the foundation to help design their Training and Running app which was super dope. And then I was also in the innovation kitchen for a hot minute. I really loved working on the design system for that. So if you look at their app suite,that design system I designed with a small team still stands, to note it all started with the Nike Run Club / Running app, which influenced the shopping app, which influenced the training app.
OC: That’s right! Innovation at Swoosh. And I’m also going to pivot again, so can you share with us about the design houses you’ve created work for?
JC: Oh yeah, my favorite high-end brands I’ve worked for – Hermès. I was an experiential designer so Hermès would put on these big activations, parties or gatherings, my team would help design digital invitations, experiences, and interactive experiences as a part of the party or event experience. We created experience moments with fully interactive pop-up activities that would be saved to their RFID tags then publish their memorable moments to custom mini-sites for the users to relive their time at theses exclusive parties.
And then my other favorite set of work has been for Ralph Lauren. For the Ralph work, I was a brand system designer and I built an internal DNA library archive for them. This archival was a special one where only the internal teams, creative directors, and high fashion executives, could log in, pull a capsule item or previous fashion items, and have them sent to their offices.
OC: Wait, so like physical pieces? From like previous fashion seasons that past? So I could get a piece from the Y2K era or something from last season? Physical pieces?
JC: Yeah, yeah, and then those pieces were like a giant archived catalog. If you have some sort of theme or concept, you want to pull it all toghether. It’s a new quarter and you want to pull some stuff from the archives. You can download, check out, shop for things in the archive, and then Ralph will send the archive library and ship it to that store and they would have it there to check out, like a library type of system. This would help the creatives at Ralph develop and finalize their seasonal looks, which was just so dope to be a part of supporting them.
OC: Woah and fashion is such a cultural and unique avenue that doesn’t really parallel advertising but in the same vein, the branding aspect does. Leaning more into culture, In your own words what do you think culture is?
JC: Look I am just one opinion on this subject but I believe culture includes people's heritage, acenstrial backgrounds, perspectives, traditions, POVs, experiences, and how you create a community around it – all of this accumulated into a form of expression like music, clothing, dance, physical expressions, oral storytelling, art, etc. It's like all of those culminated into a shared appreciation and expression.
OC: What do you think about the culture of advertising and our greater creative industry?
JC: I think the culture of advertising is changing right before our eyes. I would say the pandemic put us all in survival mode, and now that we have had a year to just recover from it, people want to see a change in the industry. This comes in many different forms, change in how the industry operates, in the work, and especially in leaders. This includes me, I have always had visions and ideas of how things could be different and also look to many leaders to help be a part of the larger change that can happen for the better. As Public School NYC puts it, We Need Leaders.
A few of these changes I am particularly excited about are: how we can all be more proud of who each and every one of us is and have influence and confidence in how we show up in the industry and have the work reflect it. This can look and be different for anyone, I just hope we all are a little more open-minded and curious about our differences and similarities.
I am also very excited and want to be a part of the change here in the city of Portland. Especially in the Portland Creative Community and beyond. I remember when it was such an energetic and thriving creative community where people would be so excited to go to Design Week, Creative Mornings, WeMake events or even as simple as an agency happy hour or meet ups. That shit was so fun to mob around, meet new people, and hear their stories, backgrounds and what excites them. Not that it will ever be the same here in Portland, but I would hope that I can be a part of what that new era of creativity in the city is.
Overcoming the Creator’s Block by Saying “Yes” More
OC: We know all creatives go through this but how do you break through or shake off stagnation? Creator’s block?
JC: Stagnation is tough. It's a huge hit to the ego for any creative person. When you start to feel stagnant, it gets scary because then you, at least for me – I started to feel like, oh, shit. Like I'm losing my juice. You know what I mean? I'm losing my craft. Depreciation. So that's a scary moment when you start to feel like that. Yeah. But when I start to notice that when I'm starting to feel uninspired, there are a couple of things that I've been doing recently.
OC: Please share more with the choir.
JC: The first one is I'm trying to say yes more to different experiences. I know this can sound counter intuitive but saying yes for me helps me just open my mind to different experiences and perspectives. It just opens the way I think about things. So that's one thing. For example, I’ve said “yes” to exploring and trying things.
One specific example is, as I am educating myself and digging more into of my Filipino heritage, I said yes to learning a new marital art. It’s called “Eskrima”, it's a type of FMA and our specific style is Leskas or Lightning style. Shout out to the Rose City Escrima fam! It’s a combination of tactical combat and fighting using sticks and daggers. A lot of it comes from bladed combat, when Spain came to colonize the Phillipine islands they took away our blades and sticks weren’t so teachings and traditions have been continued on through generations. Right now, I’m starting off with just sticks and later upgrading to double sticks then stick and dagger. So, I've been saying yes to that and that's been a really great way for me to want to express myself.
The second thing is I try to quickly create. That's always the biggest challenge. So for me to stay sharp and for me to stay inspired is like, what am I stoked about right now? Let's go make something like that. And even if I don't put it out there in the world, I need to go make it.
Flybox was one of those projects where I was like, I need to do a self-initiated project because I felt uninspired. My mind is telling me I need to go create or have some sort of progression in that space. So Flybox and the birth of the basketball trading cards was a passion project while I was in a dip in my creativity. Allen Iverson is my favorite player of all time so I just started to make stuff - cards, printed merch like t-shirts. Then put on a pop up art show at Deadstock Coffee and sold it all. It was super dope.
For people and for other folks who are struggling with this – it doesn't matter what you create. It's just a process of doing. Not the final product because, like you said, I think a part of advertising too is proof of how we are successful in this business is how our work gets published and when and how much of it. And there's no such thing as perfect and everyone needs to get that out of their minds too. For me it's progress over perfection. There's no such thing as perfect.
I'm not a precious type of person about the work I do because it can always be better. And do I want to take the time to edit and make the work better? Of course, yeah. But it really is about progress. Always the progress and the process. Trust it.
A Pinch of Salt & Splash of Advice
OC: What are three things or moments you discovered during your creative journey that made you, Joe the CCO? Could be anything you want to share with the class.
JC: Okay, first is having a boss that believes in you, at any level of your career. The second is being fearless. And you know, I think we both know that advertising is about chasing the product or like the experience, but people forget about the vibe. By being fearless, I'm not afraid to be wrong. Even at my level as a former Creative Director and now CCO, I’m not afraid to be wrong – I’m wrong all the time, even when you were still working with me. This is crucial and very important to understand, it will take you very far in your career as a creative to allow yourself to be wrong and iterate.
Ooof, and the third point is always the hardest. I would say, Bruce Lee and his teachings, my favorite piece of inspiration was in one of his interviews he explains what it means to be like water. Be flexible, always adapting and changing. I literally always go back to his teachings and interviews. I'm a conceptual type of person, so that's why Bruce Lee and his philosophies stick with me. Also, in general, his big ideas and thoughts have deeply influenced and helped me along my journey.
OC: I’m going to push a little deeper: what would you tell the struggling creative who feels lost? Or what would you tell little 10-year-old Joe-Joe?
JC: Oh, okay. I love that. Um, you're making me cry here. I would say that first, is that you’re enough, second, you’re trying your damnedest, and third is that you’re doing your best with the information and skills you have, you will get better. I broke it down into three separate things but really it’s a combination of all three. Not a list of sentences but like–
OC: A vibe or momentum of things.
JC: Yes, and I had this conversation with my Ba, my stepdad/Viet dad, a few years back, I can’t remember when. But he said that he was proud of me and that he wanted me to know that I’m doing a good job. Like that was the most emotional and also super rare time my dad acknowledged that I was doing the best I could. It really made us get closer and like you know how Viet dads are – it’s something I can’t talk about enough.
White Rabbit Wrappers, Mr. Coffee Cans, & The Rotating API Playlists
OC: Okay, Joe, we’re going to wrap up pretty soon here. We’ve gone on a rollercoaster of vibes, moods, and tenderness so I want to end on a creative note. Imagine you own your own agency. Just play along with it. What kind of snacks do you absolutely have to have stocked? No questions asked. Your assistant or the head of people have to order these snacks. Oh, everyone is over 21 here.
JC: Oh, I love cookies. I mean variety. We got to have all kinds. And of course, White Rabbit candies along with the tamarind candies, the brown wrapper ones! Oh, oh, and the little guava candies in the green wrappers, my favorite and I have some in my pocket right now! And Bin Bin Bin, MSG-filled crackers.
OC: I love White Rabbit and the tamarind ones hit me in the childhood feels! Okay, wait, so what about washing down the snacks? What about drinks?
JC: Ah, drinks. Well, we got to have fizzy water, bubbly. Soda water. And of course, Hennessey, Hennythingspossible ya feel me? Also, a spam musubi warmer. We GOT to have those in the office. And little cans of Mr. Coffee, the iced coffee ones, short can ones.
OC: Oh, Mr. Coffee is such a staple. I sometimes just buy them to feel like I’m 8 years old again. And then lastly, which API tunes are you listening to currently? What’s rotating on your playlist?
JC: For sure, Joji. My boy Joji with the sad boy songs, like “Glimpse of Us” and “Slow Dancing in the Dark.” I’m also super into Dumbfoundead and really anything from AIA’s Breaking Barrier Summit Playlist, it was a super dope list.
--
Curious to learn more about Joe? Check out his latest work on his portfolio and also on the “First Generation Burden” Podcast, hosted by Rich Tu. This is the second exclusive AIA creative community interview. Continue following us on Instagram and LinkedIn to stay updated on our future guests.
Follow us on social:
Asians in Advertising Instagram
Asians in Advertising LinkedIn
Discover more about Joe and his agency:
Joe’s Podcast Episode on “First Generation Burden”
PDX Design Festival Keynote
